Curse

Greygon · Oct 29, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

If i were to be resonable and set a reasonable amount of faction for the unlocking to start, it would be at

For 15k
60k Faction - Chest
20k Faction- boots, hands (each)
30k Faction- head
50k Faction- leggings

For FoW armour
110k Faction - Chest
40k Faction- boots, hands
60k Faction- head
90k Faction- leggings

per class. And you wouldnt be able to use a warrior armour on anyone other than a warrior. If you think that i'm not being reasonable, think about how long it takes for 1 fow armour to be made for one character. And if u unlock it for pvp, u can have an enless supply of fow armour. So naturally the cost must be higher.

I suppose only then would it ever be equal in a sense to the effort that the pve guys go thru to get their fow stuff.

Only thing I disagree with is that your Faction for FoW Armor is too LOW. Look at how much harder FoW is to get than 15k. IMHO, FoW should be at LEAST 4x as much faction as 15k.

NatalieD · Oct 29, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I'm still curious as to how people would feel about making the 15ks and some of the weapons unlockable, but leaving the Fissure armor and the more badass-looking weapons as pve exclusives. That seems like a reasonable compromise to me. It's not like 15k armors are very prestigious anymore anyway, given how easily you can get them without even playing much pve.

UltimaXtreme · Oct 29, 2005, 06:42 AM // 06:42

15k armor set for pvp should be definatley unlockable, but in one condition.

your pve character must possess or have bought each seperate 15k peice to unlock each for pvp. This includes FoW armor to unlock because of how hard it is to acuire even on a pve character.

there is absolutly no reason why it shouldn't if you have a pve char already with that armor.

if anyone disagrees with my method of unlocking armors please direct your bitching to the nearest brick wall.

Shattered Self · Oct 29, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

How about allowing you to unlock the kinds of armor that are visually different but have the same stats? What if I want Necrotic for my PvP necro instead of Tormentor's?

NatalieD · Oct 29, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shattered Self

How about allowing you to unlock the kinds of armor that are visually different but have the same stats? What if I want Necrotic for my PvP necro instead of Tormentor's?

That too! Heck, I kind of think those should be available automatically...

Shattered Self · Oct 29, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

That too! Heck, I kind of think those should be available automatically...

Yeah, I was really annoyed that I couldn't use the PvP character generation system to test what different armor combos would look like on my necro.

tomcruisejr · Oct 29, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

you lazy asses gotta go pve and get 15ks yourselves the hard way.

no

how about this.

you get 15k or fissure from pvp, pvers get fame from griffons.

cool?

:P

besides, im seeing few pvpers sporting 15ks and/or FoW armors dyed in black lately in tombs.

NatalieD · Oct 29, 2005, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

you get 15k or fissure from pvp, pvers get fame from griffons.

cool?

:P

Fine by me!

Shadowdaemon · Oct 29, 2005, 09:44 AM // 09:44

ok if pvp people can just unlock the fissure armor i spent over a million gold gold on, then i want to unlock rank 12 just for ascending....

Jczech · Oct 29, 2005, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

/signed

You should be able to unlock it ONLY after you have unlocked it in PvE.

IF it were ever to be unlockable then the only way should be through PvE, so you'd have to buy every set if you wanted it on a PvP character. And no, fissure pyromancer leggings would NOT unlock fissure aeromancer leggings. The only reason I support this is so that you could 'retire' (delete) a PvE character and then create them exactly as they were, but confined to PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowdaemon

ok if pvp people can just unlock the fissure armor i spent over a million gold gold on, then i want to unlock rank 12 just for ascending....

Perhaps not for ascending.. maybe 1 fame per 100 gold or so...

Lexar · Oct 29, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

There was a time when people considered the pvp characters, the poor man's alternative for playing pvp. For those people that weren't far enough in the game to really pvp with their rp character. I think that the pve characters should even have some sort of advantage over pvp characters, in order to not let the two ways to play the game be seperated too much. Right now it's like you have two games that run paralel next to each other, and the only interaction between them is the occasional pve character in tombs. I would suggest maybe changing the items and upgrades, and weapons of pvp characters to a little below perfect, you don't see an actual difference when you play, so not that much would change anyway, and people might be more inclined to use a pve character, which would lead to more interaction between pve and pvp.

Akhilleus · Oct 29, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimaXtreme

15k armor set for pvp should be definatley unlockable, but in one condition.

your pve character must possess or have bought each seperate 15k peice to unlock each for pvp. This includes FoW armor to unlock because of how hard it is to acuire even on a pve character.

there is absolutly no reason why it shouldn't if you have a pve char already with that armor.

if anyone disagrees with my method of unlocking armors please direct your bitching to the nearest brick wall.

once again, this means that if you get 15k ONCE, you can get it three more times, FOR FREE, right off the bat, without any extra work in pvp.
NO THANK YOU. why should pvp chars be treated special for doing nothing?

and in case you guys didnt know; 10k is max faction at any one time, so at the moment unlocking armros w/ 100k faction isnt possible.
and even so, i could get 100k faction 5X faster than it took me to save up for FoW armor the first time.
like i said, all you guys who want this want all the benifit for half the work.
the ascetic armors were designed to be exclusively for pve, to give pve chars something to do after they beat the game.
i play pvp as much as the next guy, and if you want 15k armor and fissure armor so badly; and its "too common for it to be special anyway," and you think its so easy to get, then make a pve char, and get it.
heres a thought; a pve char can do anything a pvp char cant (unless you're too lazy to unlock elites in pve), so if you want something on pvp that you can only have in pve, MAKE A PVE, and if you're admitting that that takes too much time effort and work, then thank you for making my argument all the more valid.
you can already give your gold weapons and great shields to pvp chars (which is an atrocity), and thats bad enough.
and unfortunatly for you, anet, and probably the majority of players, agree with me. it is only the minority of people who want that perfect +30 -2 shield, fissure armor, etc, for close to no work on thier pvp char, who agree with this absurd notion.
i play both pve and pvp, and i worked for the equipment and collections i have, why should you be exempt from the same amount of time and dedication to get the same equipment on a character which only required 3 minutes of work; the time it takes to set them up.as far as im concerned, a character that requires NONE of the work to level up or play through the game, deserves NONE of the benifits of one that does.

edit, added:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

besides, im seeing few pvpers sporting 15ks and/or FoW armors dyed in black lately in tombs.

i'd be one of them, i dont believe in pvp chars.

neoteo · Oct 29, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

/signed

You should be able to unlock it ONLY after you have unlocked it in PvE.

this i could agree .. after you do pve , yes you can use it pvp ... sounds fair

anyway , this thread shows that pvp players are not happy with the actual goals they have

favor of gods and guild rank

these are team goals , personal goals are only rank emotes , afaik

ive been talking with friends about what makes people play rpg games , based or not on war , the goal is the same for all ... skills & items/armors

so ... give a horse to pve players that have 1 milion experience

and unlock godly items for pvp players that have tones of faction , like 50k faction for a sword ... or 500k faction for a armor

its true that , us pve players have the 1.5 milion fissure armor , so pvp players should have something as hard to get

Akhilleus · Oct 29, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoteo

its true that , us pve players have the 1.5 milion fissure armor , so pvp players should have something as hard to get

now, an unlockable ascetic-effect armor that looks different from 15k or fissure, that you can only get with rank 12 AND an additional 5 installments (10k per piece) of 10k faction; that is limited to pvp chars, is something i am NOT in opposition too, as that shows your dedication to pvp.
HOWEVER, then allowing that armor to be obtained by pve chars, for lets say, 100k including material cost, would be a travesty, and thats what many of the pvpers here are asking the equivilant of.

so; thats MY middle-ground proposal; a seperate, different looking pvp-only armor (unlockable only after rank 12, and for each new set requires a total of 50k faction [10k per piece]), available only to pvp.
the 15k and fissure equivilant for pvp chars.
fissure and 15k show dedication in pve, this would show dedication in pvp; but the 2 should not mix in terms of "special" equipment.

lyra_song · Oct 29, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I call this the seperation of PvP and PvE.

Money is useless in PvP. Faction is useless in PvE.

Items in PvP cannot be used in PvE because they always have perfect mods (once unlocked).

Items in PvE can be used in PvP because a PvP will always be equal or better in mods.

If you allow things that are unique to one or the other cross over, we must allow other things to cross over.

How about making a PvP character with a perfect modded weapon then using it in PvE? Only then will i agree to 15k for PvP

besides, PvP only players already have something a PvE player only can never have, which is Rank.

LifeInfusion · Oct 29, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Being a PvP character means you accept you did no work to advance your PvP character except by unlocking.

In PvE you have to get the skills, unlock, buy stuff, trade, sell, and walk through the maps. All the rarematerials in 15K sets are from collection of items and going to rare meterial traders or crafters. To give tem for free to PvP characters means there is no incentive to actually use PvE characters for PvP.

NatalieD · Oct 30, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Being a PvP character means you accept you did no work to advance your PvP character except by unlocking...

To give tem for free to PvP characters means there is no incentive to actually use PvE characters for PvP.

I can't see what's wrong with any of that.

NatalieD · Oct 30, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

heres a thought; a pve char can do anything a pvp char cant (unless you're too lazy to unlock elites in pve), so if you want something on pvp that you can only have in pve, MAKE A PVE, and if you're admitting that that takes too much time effort and work, then thank you for making my argument all the more valid.

I call your argument invalid because it rests on the assumption that requiring work is a good thing. I do not accept this assumption.

TsunamiZ · Oct 30, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I want to be able to unlock 15k armor for PVP, too!

Morganas · Oct 30, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Christ there's alot of hate for pvpers in a game built around pvp in this thread.

Demanding that we pve to unlock the armor is fair, as you had to do the same, but requiring we do that for every disposable character we make is not fair. Serious pvpers cannot use rp characters in pvp. I usually end up having to reroll my character before every group I join, and several times during too as we tweak the build. It's wrong that if you spend most of your time with skilled pvp groups you never even get to see 15k armor, except on the rare off-chance one of your rp characters actually fits in a build, equipment and all.

Being able to unlock 15k armor for my pvp character wouldn't be like giving it to a bunch of rp characters, it would be like giving a set to a single constantly changing character.

Also, let me quickly address the flawed assumption that seems to be floating around that pvpers are lazy. To pvp well (that is, meet the expectations of a good pvp guild), you have to have a good 90% of the game skills unlocked, across all classes. This means playing through the game on 3 characters, and filling in the skill gaps with faction. This is no small feat. So I guess the reason pvpers are being called lazy is because we don't spend significant amounts of time doing mindless farming all the time, but instead put all of those earned skills to good use.

So, the fact that a pvpers end game is spent in strategic competition verses the pvers braindead button mashing makes the pvpers lazy. Right.